The Comeback with Brenda Dennehy
The Comeback with Brenda Dennehy is a podcast that shares inspiring stories of resilience, transformation, and triumph. Hosted by Brenda Dennehy, it features honest conversations with real people who have faced life's toughest challenges and emerged stronger. Each episode explores themes of overcoming adversity, personal breakthroughs, and the human capacity for resilience. The podcast aims to provide hope and motivation to listeners.
Episodes
The Comeback with Aoibhe Devlin
Aoibhe Devlin opens up like never before about some of the most difficult periods of her life.For the first time, she speaks publicly about experiencing postnatal depression, struggling in silence and eventually reaching out for help. She also talks about the online abuse she faced while heavily pregnant, going through a breakup and reaching a point where she questioned how much more she could tak
Suddenly Widowed: Three Women Share Their Stories
What happens when the person you thought you would grow old with is suddenly gone?In this episode, Catriona Brennan, Samantha Byrne and Fiona McCluskey share their experiences of becoming widowed at a young age.Catriona lost her partner Timothy Lynch Junior, on November 22nd, 2025. Samantha lost the love of her life Seán Feeney on September 3rd, 2023. Fiona lost her husband Stephen on April 24th,
The Comeback with Caoimhe McGinley
This week, I’m joined by one of Ireland’s best-known content creators, Caoimhe McGinley.Many will know Caoimhe from The Big Hill House, but behind the beautiful home and social media posts is a story of heartbreak, resilience and rebuilding.In this honest conversation, Caoimhe opens up about the breakdown of her marriage, navigating such a difficult time in the public eye, raising her four childre
The Comeback with Eleanor Doyle
Eleanor Doyle Is BackThe podcast is back after the summer break, and we’re returning with an episode that has quite a story behind it.Eleanor has been here before. Her original episode went live a few months ago, but shortly afterwards, it disappeared.A lot of people noticed. A lot of people asked why.In this episode, we explain what happened.For those who don’t know Eleanor, you may know her for
A Summer Pause Before the Next Chapter
After an incredible 14 months and almost 1.2 million Spotify streams, I’m taking a short summer break from the podcast.Thank you to every guest and listener who has supported the podcast, and a huge thank you to ADHD Now and GoLoud for making it all possible.I’ll still be recording during the break, so this is not goodbye. I’ll be back with a bang!
Comeback Confidential with Psychotherapist Lauren Golden
Welcome to Comeback Confidential, the bonus series of The Comeback with Brenda Dennehy, where anonymous listener stories are shared in a safe and supportive space.In this episode, Brenda is joined by Psychotherapist Lauren Golden to explore powerful stories submitted by listeners.Together, they discuss the realities of love bombing, domestic abuse, and the heartbreaking impact addiction can have o
The Comeback with Humphrey O' Driscoll
What happens when years of bullying, shame and addiction convince you that you're not worthy of being yourself?In this episode, Humphrey O'Driscoll shares his remarkable journey of growing up gay in Carrigaline, the relentless bullying he endured, and how alcohol and cocaine became his way of escaping the pain.He opens up about losing the love of his life to addiction, hitting rock bottom, and the
The Comeback with Lisa O' Sullivan Shaw
Lisa O'Sullivan Shaw's life has been anything but ordinary.Born with a heart condition, she underwent open heart surgery as a baby before growing up to become Miss Universe Ireland. But behind the glamour were years of relentless bullying, a life changing health battle, and the fear of facing open heart surgery again while raising four young boys.In this episode of Lisa shares the moments that sha
The Comeback with Grace O' Connor
James O'Connor kissed his family goodbye and headed off on what was meant to be the adventure of a lifetime, climbing Mount Kilimanjaro to celebrate his 40th birthday in December 2023.He never came home.Just 100 metres from the summit, James passed away, leaving behind his wife Grace and their three young children.In one of the most emotional conversation Grace opens up about the moment she receiv
The Comeback with Rachel Forde
This week on the podcast, Brenda sits down with Rachel Forde for one of the most honest and powerful conversations we've had on the podcast.Many people may remember the headlines surrounding Rachel several years ago, but few know the story behind them.What started as an addiction to codeine-based painkillers spiralled into a nightmare that saw Rachel taking up to 90 tablets a day, experiencing dru
The Comeback with Colin Tobin
From working from the age of 12, to building businesses, losing almost €1.3 million, Colin Tobin's story is one of resilience, hard work, and determination.Despite the setbacks and failed ventures along the way, there is no bitterness. Instead, Colin believes the secret to life is giving back, helping others, and expecting nothing in return.We chat about business, loss, work ethic, welfare, commun
The Comeback with Dr. Brian Pennie
In this powerful conversation, Brian Pennie opens up about trauma, addiction, hitting rock bottom and the remarkable journey that took him from using heroin during his Leaving Cert to becoming Dr Brian Pennie, neuroscientist and author.He speaks honestly about being €50,000 in debt, falling asleep at work because his body was shutting down, suffering a violent seizure during detox, and the moment
The Comeback with Jennifer McCarthy
Jennifer McCarthy spent years working in high pressure environments as a trauma nurse and later in response policing, supporting others through their darkest moments.But behind the uniform, Jennifer was facing battles of her own.Divorce. Betrayal. Critical illness. Medical retirement. Losing her identity. Becoming a single parent. And surviving moments where she genuinely believed she might die.In
Comeback Confidential with Psychotherapist Lauren Golden
Welcome to the first Comeback Confidential, a bonus episode of The Comeback with Brenda Dennehy, where anonymous listener stories are shared in a safe and supportive space.In this episode, Brenda is joined by Psychotherapist Lauren Golden to explore the reality of loving someone with addiction.We hear from one woman who survived years of abuse while living with an addict, and another who is curren
The Comeback with Mags Harty
This week Brenda is joined by Mags Harty for a deeply moving and powerful conversation.Mags opens up about the heartbreak of eight miscarriages, losing her mum at the same time, and the toll it took on her mentally, physically and emotionally.There were moments she felt she couldn’t go on, but she kept fighting.And after everything, Mags got her miracle baby, Isla.A raw and honest story of loss, r
The Comeback with Eimear Coffey
From the outside, Eimear Coffey had the kind of life people dream of - until everything came crashing down.A young mum at 23, she grew up alongside her son Daniel, building a life that looked full of love and promise. Years later, with the arrival of her second son Ollie in 2018, everything seemed complete.But behind closed doors, her world was falling apart.Betrayal. Narcissistic abuse. The fear
The Comeback with Ciarán O’Driscoll
Ciarán O’Driscoll’s story is one of pain, loss, and ultimately, redemption.Sober since 2002, he opens up about growing up in a home shaped by alcoholism, and the devastating loss of his brothers, who were twins.From his first drink as a young teenager, to drug use, prison sentences, and deep self-hatred, his life spiralled quickly. In and out of Cork Prison, Mountjoy, and other institutions, addic
The Comeback with Leona Macken
Leona Macken’s story will stop you in your tracks.A young mum of two, she trusted the system. She had two smear tests, in 2016 and 2020, both reported as normal. But they should not have been. That delay led to a cervical cancer diagnosis in 2023.After major surgery and intensive treatment, Leona was told in 2025 that her cancer had returned and progressed to stage four.In this episode, she speaks
Behind the Scenes on The Neil Prendeville Show
Have you ever wondered what actually happens behind the scenes on one of the biggest radio talk shows in the country?As a bonus episode this week, myself and producer Seamus, who I’ve been working alongside over the past few weeks, bring you inside The Neil Prendeville Show and how it all comes together.We chat about behind-the-scenes secrets, how Seamus may or may not have thrown me under the bus
The Comeback with Daragh Fleming
Cork poet and writer Daragh Fleming joins Brenda for the first episode of the new series of The Comeback.In this episode, he shares his journey into writing, from a young age to putting his work out into the world. He also reads two of his most powerful pieces, If I Ever Have Boys and If I Ever Have Girls.Daragh speaks openly about living with depression without realising it, describing a time whe
A Small Break, A Big Thank You
After an incredible live show at the Cork Podcast Festival, I’m taking a short break.Thank you so much for all the support, it truly means everything. This podcast would not exist without you.I’ll be back very soon with some amazing guests.
The Comeback with Richie Herlihy
Cork TikTok creator Richie Herlihy (Richie’s Food and Nature) joins Brenda for a powerful and honest conversation about the reality behind his viral food reviews.Richie opens up about the recent devastating loss of his close friend Ryan Dunphy, learning about his death while he himself was in hospital. He also clears up online rumours about his health and explains what really happened.Richie also
The Comeback with Helena Brosnan
On this week’s episode, I’m joined by Kerry fashion blogger and influencer Helena Brosnan, known to many as Super Betty.Last year, Helena received a shock diagnosis of cervical cancer after attending a routine smear test, despite having no symptoms at all.Throughout her treatment, she shared her journey openly with her followers, bringing honesty, positivity, and encouragement to thousands of wome
The Comeback with Danny Buckley
This week, I sit down with Danny Buckley for a powerful and honest conversation about grief, addiction and recovery.Raised in Knocknaheeny on Cork’s northside, Danny shares the unimaginable loss of his wife Simone, his childhood sweetheart, and how her final words changed the way he lives his life today.From heartbreak came purpose, leading Danny to understand his own ADHD and create ADHD Now, hel
The Comeback with Sian Horn
Trigger warning: This episode contains discussion of domestic abuse, miscarriage, and medical abortion. Please take care while listening.This week Brenda sits down with Sian Horn, a podcaster, Pilates instructor, and business consultant who advocates for women, wellbeing, and small businesses while sharing her own powerful healing journey.In this deeply honest conversation, Sian speaks openly abou
I Had No Idea I Was Pregnant Until I Gave Birth 6 Hours Later
This week’s bonus episode tells an extraordinary story that unfolds in a matter of hours.Eimir Burke had no idea she was pregnant until the day she gave birth. Having previously been told she had polycystic ovaries, she believed having children might not be possible. There were no obvious signs, and everything felt completely normal, until sudden pain led to a scan that changed everything.By the e
The Comeback with Micheál Costello
In this episode, I sit down with Kerry native Micheál Costello for a powerful and honest conversation.What began as a search for control through exercise slowly spiralled into anorexia and depression. Diagnosed in October 2020, Micheál’s illness carried deep family history, with his aunt having died from anorexia years earlier.We talk about stigma, especially for men, the danger of waiting lists,
The Comeback with Stephen Cowboy Kelly
In this episode I sit down with Irish comedian Stephen “Cowboy” Kelly for a powerful and honest conversation.Best known for his comedy, online sketches, and appearances on Hardy Bucks, Stephen has built a strong following across stand-up, live shows, and social media. In this episode, he goes beyond the laughs to share a much deeper story.Stephen speaks openly about nearly dying three times, inclu
The Comeback with Julie Burke @juliesrulesirl
This week, I am joined by Julie Burke, also known as @julesrulesirl on social media, for a conversation every woman who has ever felt underestimated needs to hear. Julie worked her way from retail to General Manager through grit, confidence, and backing herself when no one else did. Nothing was handed to her.We talk confidence, knowing your worth, navigating social media, and why personality will
The Comeback with Jason Byrne
This week on The Comeback, I sit down with Jason Byrne.Jason grew up in Ballymun, Dublin, and first encountered drugs at 16. What began as curiosity escalated and shaped many years of his life. Now almost three years sober, he reflects honestly on addiction, recovery, and change.Jason is the founder of Rise Above It, a community built around movement, connection, and support through running, hikin
The Comeback with Alan Clarke
This week on The Comeback, I am joined by my good friend Alan Clarke.Many of you will know Alan from his social media sketches and his hugely successful podcast Big News Coming Soon, but for the first time, he shares his full story on a podcast.In this episode, Alan speaks openly about the breakdown he faced, the weeks he spent unable to leave the house with the blinds closed, and the role therapy
What’s Next for The Comeback?
All good things, in time.Some returns look different than departures. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
The Comeback in Tenerife (Yes, I Am Still Here)
This week’s episode is a more relaxed and honest conversation recorded in Tenerife. I am joined by my friend Chris, who called over for a chat about his story and the role he has played in supporting me through recovery. There are plenty of laughs, alongside some very real moments.I also answer the most asked question of the last three weeks, have I moved to Tenerife.There are some changes coming
The Comeback, Words of Hope
New Year can be a difficult time.In this special episode, I revisit the final three questions I ask every guest on the podcast. Not the polished answers, but the honest ones. The words shaped by grief, addiction, illness, loss, recovery, and survival.This episode opens with a tribute to Natasha O’Byrne, who passed away last week. Natasha was one of the very first people to reach out when this podc
The Comeback Live | Final Episode of 2025
This episode captures my live show, and quite honestly, the best night of my life.As this final episode of 2025 goes out, I want to thank every single person who has supported the podcast over the past six months. What this show has become is beyond anything I could have imagined, and that is entirely down to you, the listeners, and the incredible guests who shared their stories so openly and the
The Comeback with Timmy Long
This week, I sit down with Timmy Long, whose story of addiction and recovery left the room in silence when he shared it at my live show in November.Timmy grew up in poverty on the north side of Cork City and experienced trauma from a young age. Years later, he fell into addiction and soon after served time in prison. While incarcerated, he received devastating news that his mother had died, a
The Comeback with Joe Byrne
This week, Brenda sits down with her dear friend Joe Byrne for a raw and honest conversation about identity, addiction and healing. Joe talks about growing up gay, dealing with homophobia and Catholic guilt, and the long road toward self acceptance.He opens up about his struggles with alcohol addiction and Xanax addiction, his journey through addiction recovery, and the resilience that helped him
The Comeback with Sarah Burke
Most of you will know her as Sarah Burke, now Sarah O’Connor after marrying the love of her life, Keith. Her road to happiness was anything but simple.In this episode, Sarah opens up about calling off her wedding six weeks before the date, going through IVF, and experiencing a devastating miscarriage. She also talks about the horrific trolling she faced and, for the first time, reads the threateni
Night of My Life (Be Right Back!)
Taking a tiny break this week… because my live show absolutely took over my life, in the best possible way. It turned out to be one of the greatest nights I have ever had - I am still floating. Thank you to everyone who showed up and supported me.Missed it? The full live show episode lands before Christmas.Back next Monday with an amazing guest. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more info
The Comeback with Lou Hibbert
At just 20 years old, Lou Hibbert’s world changed forever. Her dad Barry, a man who had gone from growing up in a council estate to becoming the CEO of a major company, took his own life.In this powerful conversation, Lou opens up about losing a parent to suicide, navigating bereavement, and how therapy and counselling helped her rebuild self-worth, self-love, and self-compassion.This Movember, as
The Comeback with Harry Greaney
At just 20 years old, Harry Greaney was told he had synovial sarcoma, a rare and aggressive cancer. He’s battled it not once, not twice, but three times. When doctors could no longer save his arm, Harry had to undergo an amputation - a life-changing moment that would break most people.But not Harry. Just weeks after surgery, he was already back training and even preparing for a powerlifting compet
The Comeback with...Eoin McGrath
From struggling with his weight as a teenager to trying his first drug at his own school debs, Eoin McGrath's story is one of addiction recovery, heartbreak, and hope. He talks openly about his cocaine addiction, binge eating, and the moment his family discovered how bad things had become.But this isn’t just a rehab story - it’s about grief and loss, mental health, and the sobriety journey th
The Truth About My Dad’s Death - Natasha’s Story
Natasha McCarthy lost her dad, Tommy, in a tragic car fire the day before her 30th birthday in April 2024. In this powerful and deeply moving episode, she opens up about her grief journey, coping with loss, and healing after trauma as a single mother. She speaks honestly about the waves of bereavement, family trauma, and the long process of rebuilding life after such unimaginable pain.This is a st
The Comeback with Steph Doyle
For almost a decade, Steph lived in silence with depression, anxiety, and severe OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder).Her life became smaller and smaller - until one day, she found herself confined to her room, unable to touch, eat, or even sit with the people she loved most.In this episode, Steph opens up about the terrifying cycle of intrusive thoughts, hand-washing rituals, and anxiety disorder
Why Women Ghost Women
This bonus episode is a little different.After receiving a flood of messages about the women ghosting women phenomenon, I asked Lauren Golden, a psychotherapist, to join me in studio to unpack what’s really going on.We dive into the psychology behind why women ghost each other - from friendships that suddenly end to connections that quietly fade away. We also touch on men ghosting women and women
The Comeback with Orlagh Winters
At just 36, eight months married, Orlagh Winters was diagnosed with an aggressive form of breast cancer - with no lump, only pain in her breast. Her story is a powerful reminder to always get checked and trust your instincts when it comes to your health.In this episode, Orlagh opens up about her breast cancer diagnosis, the gruelling rounds of chemotherapy and the side effects that came with it -
The Comeback with Andrew Desmond
At seventeen, Andrew Desmond picked up his first drink - and from that moment, his life spiralled into years of alcohol addiction, problem gambling, and self-destruction. By his own words, he was a fall-down drunk, trapped in a cycle of chaos and shame.But this is not a story about defeat. It’s about recovery, personal growth, and the courage to start again.Now sixteen years sober, Andrew is a hus
The Comeback with Lauren Edwards
⚠️ Trigger warning: This episode contains discussion of eating disorders, suicidal ideation and self-harm. Please take care while listening.Lauren Edwards’ story is one of struggle, survival, and ultimately, transformation. What began as a search to fit in led to years of addiction, self-destruction, and heartbreak - but also to recovery, healing, and purpose.After reaching her lowest point, Laure
The Comeback with...Aidan Loughnane
⚠️ Trigger warning: This episode contains discussion of suicide and mental health struggles. Please take care while listening.This week, I sit down with Aidan Loughnane to talk about his journey through anxiety, depression, crippling panic attacks, and the frightening panic attack symptoms that began in his teenage years. He opens up about living with an eating disorder that developed into bulimia
The Comeback with Dave Kennedy
When his sister Sarah died in a car accident in 2010, Dave Kennedy turned to food for comfort - food he describes as his poison. Grief pushed him into emotional eating and unhealthy habits until he decided to turn his life around, beginning a weight loss journey that saw him shed eight stone and rebuild his confidence.Now a farmer and personal coach, Dave helps others find their own strength and r
The Comeback with… Kim Nolan
Trigger warning: This episode contains discussion of suicide and suicidal ideation. Please take care while listening.Four years ago, Kim Nolan lost the love of her life, Thomas, to suicide. In an instant, her world was shattered. She was left to raise their children, Kaidyn and Aria, and faced the unbearable task of telling them their dad was gone - before having to break the same devastating news
The Comeback with… Caroline Rushe
Most people know her online as Crazy Caroline - full of energy and fun. But in this episode of The Comeback, Caroline Rushe reveals the woman behind the Instagram account.She talks about growing up in poverty, being bullied at school and beaten at home, and how those experiences shaped her. Caroline shares with raw honesty her battles with grief, suicide, and mental health - and how she has found
Goodbye… for now
After fifteen amazing episodes of The Comeback with Brenda Dennehy, I’m taking a little break. When I put out episode one just twelve weeks ago, I never thought it would reach and connect with so many of you.I can’t thank you enough for all the love, messages, and support. Season Two is already recorded, and I’ll be back very soon - kicking off with an absolute banger!Connect With Me:Instagram: @t
The Comeback with... Damien Long
Trigger warning:This episode contains conversations about suicide and bereavement. Listener discretion is advised.Episode Description:On 8th May 2016, Damien Long’s life changed forever. That Sunday morning - usually spent with his 17-year-old daughter Shaunagh - ended with the knock at the door no parent ever wants to answer. Shaunagh had died by suicide.In this raw and unflinching
The Comeback with....Lorraine Jordan
Trigger Warning!This episode contains themes of suicide and mental health. Please listen with care.Episode DescriptionOn this powerful episode of The Comeback, Lorraine Jordan shares the night she went into the River Lee in Cork - and how a stranger jumped in to help save her.What followed was a long recovery journey through alcohol addiction, depression, and the struggle of rebuilding life as a s
The Comeback with... Nikki Hayes
Episode Description:In this episode I am joined by legendary Irish radio presenter Nikki Hayes - a voice many will remember from her days on RTÉ 2FM, Spin 1038, Classic Hits Radio, and now East Coast FM.Nikki bravely opens up about her journey through alcohol addiction, mental health struggles, bulimia, and depression, and how it all spiralled during the pandemic while she was broadcasting from ho
The Comeback with.... Mikey Power
Episode Description:From prison to personal trainer: Mikey Power’s raw story of addiction, arrests, and turning it all aroundOn this week’s episode, I’m joined by Mikey Power, who shares the unfiltered truth about his addiction recovery, run-ins with the law, and the breakthrough moment that turned his life around.From teenage drinking to prison and multiple arrests, Mikey opens up about how grief
The Comeback with.... Christine Kavanagh
This week I am joined by Christine Kavanagh, a mother from Cork who has lived through the unimaginable - losing four sons, three of them to drug-related causes.In January of this year, Christine lost two of her sons, Dillon and Damien, just fifteen days apart. They were laid to rest in a double funeral - one open coffin, one closed. Another son, Leon, died of a heroin overdose in 2021. Her pain is
The Comeback with....Nicola Guilfoyle
This week, I’m joined by Nicola Guilfoyle, a 40-year-old mum of three from Clonmel who’s lived through more than most - addiction in the family, the loss of her mother, brother, and father, and her own struggles with grief, mental health, and struggling with her weight.We talk about childhood trauma, losing her brother just weeks before giving birth, and saying goodbye to her dad - her best friend
The Comeback with… Dessie Fitzgerald
This week, I’m joined by someone whose courage, honesty, and strength will stay with you long after the episode ends — Dessie Fitzgerald.In 2011, Dessie’s world was turned upside down by a spinal cord injury, paralysis, and the loss of his brother. But instead of giving up, he chose to rebuild. Today, he’s a life coach, motivational speaker, and a powerful voice on resilience, healing, and pu
The Comeback with Melanie O’Sullivan (Rio’s Story)
This week on the podcast, Rio Fennell’s incredible journey is told through the eyes of his amazing mother, Melanie O’Sullivan - a story of a 7-year-old boy’s fight against a brain tumour, and the love that carried them through it.When Rio began showing symptoms, they were dismissed as “probably viral.” But Melanie’s instincts told her something more serious was going on. She trusted her gut, kept
The Comeback with… Andy Goulding
This week on The Comeback, I sit down with Andy Goulding - a champion marathon runner, devoted husband and son, and someone whose story of addiction and recovery will stay with you long after you’ve heard it.Five years ago, Andy’s life was turned upside down by a crippling cocaine addiction that nearly cost him his life. In a moment that can only be described as miraculous, he survived - and
The Comeback with… Natasha O’Byrne
In this episode, I’m joined by Natasha O’Byrne, or as she’s fondly known, Tasha - a 25-year-old mum of two from Cork who is currently undergoing chemotherapy for bowel cancer.Tasha shares her powerful story of facing cancer as a young mother, after losing her own mum to cancer at just 46. She is now the third generation in her family to be diagnosed, and her courage and clarity shine through
The Comeback with... Sophie Cole
In this episode, I sit down with Sophie Cole, a special education teacher from Carrigaline whose life changed overnight after a classroom assault left her with complex regional pain syndrome (CRPS) – one of the world’s most painful and incurable conditions.Sophie opens up about living with chronic nerve pain, the trauma of PTSD, and the many surgeries she’s endured – from spinal cord stimulators t
The Comeback with… Joe McCaul
In this episode, I sit down with Joe McCaul, who many of you will remember for representing Ireland in the 2005 Eurovision Song Contest alongside his sister Donna. Joe's journey took him nationwide after the song "You're a Star," but his life took unexpected turns, including his time in the spotlight and the challenges that followed. This is Joe’s very first podcast, as he’s shied away from the me
The Comeback with… Nicola Fitzgerald
The Comeback with… Nicola FitzgeraldThis week, I sit down with the incredible Nicola Fitzgerald, also known as All Things Dogs and Home on Instagram. Nicola’s story is one of extraordinary resilience and transformation.At just 16, she rebelled, turning to drugs, and became a teen mother. Her journey led her to become addicted to heroin. Despite the hardships, Nicola’s amazing mother, Sally, never
The Comeback with… Ashling Thompson
In todays epiosde:In this episode I’m joined by the incredible Ashling Thompson, a GAA camogie star with six All-Ireland titles and four All-Stars to her name. Ashling is one of the most accomplished athletes in the sport.In this conversation, Ashling opens up about her journey, including hitting rock bottom at just 19, experiencing coercive control, losing a close friend to suicide, and captainin
The Comeback with… Neil Prendeville
In todays epiosde:Delighted to have Neil Prendeville as the very first person to feature on my podcast. For anyone who knows my story, you might guess why Neil was such an important choice. He gave me my first break in radio — and later, when I needed it most, a second chance.This episode sets the tone for The Comeback — sharing my story through an open, honest conversation with someone who’s play
